Q:  What is your personal history with Helen Bannerman's Little Black Sambo?

A:  I remember reading the story as a child, somewhere between the ages of seven and nine and having mixed feelings about it. I had shame around the illustrations as well as the name Sambo which I knew as derogatory term. The other side of it was being entranced by the story itself, especially about the tigers being turned into butter.

Q:  What made you want to rewrite this story?

A:  When I saw a discussion about the book either on rec.arts.books.children or ChildLit (two Internet children's discussion lists), I re-read it and realized it's a wonderful story. The fact that it was a wonderful story made me want to do it. Also, on one of the children's book lists, someone mentioned that they'd heard Jerry Pinkney speak somewhere and he'd wanted to do a new version. I called him up and asked him if he had a writer. He laughed and said he'd just mentioned it in an aside; saying that someone should do one. I said, "What' about it? Should we do one?" He gulped and said, "Let's talk about it."  I gulped and that's how we started.

Q:  What did you want to do differently with the story?

A:  Once, during a conversation, Jerry mentioned that there was no black fantasy, and that contributed to how I approached Sam and the Tigers. What's mixed up about Little Black Sambo is that it's a fantasy story, we know children and animals can't live together, but everyone takes the book too seriously. I like fantasy because you can do things in fantasy that you can't do in life. You can really use your imagination and lots of play. When I approached writing Sam, I decided I really wanted to accent the fantasy element.

Q:  Will you make more contributions to black fantasy books for children?

A:  I've now written two original books of black fantasy, yet unpublished, one of which Jerry will illustrate. In the one Jerry will illustrate, the children of the world go on strike and the animals of the world decide to become children. It's totally absurd and ridiculous. The other is completely different. It's almost mythic in style, and tells about a black girl in Africa who does not speak, but is capable of speech, and in the climax she sings. The titles aren't set yet. It takes me longer sometimes to come up with a title than it does to write the book. The first book I mentioned will be published by Dial and the second by Harcourt.

Q:  What do you think of Jerry Pinkney's illustrations?

A:  They knock me out! When I saw them I couldn't believe what he'd done! There's so much humor in them, especially with the tiger illustrations. I like his detailing, where he animates the trees so that all of nature became alive. Jerry and I set out to create a book that was so whole that illustration and text couldn't be separated.

Q:  You've definitely succeeded in that! Who decided to do the real departure from Little Black Sambo?

A:  We knew that we were taking a risk with the Uncle Remus books, but that turned out okay. Still we knew this was a biggie because it's such a controversial book. Jerry and I each did a lot of research. Jerry went through as many editions as he could find to discover the history of the illustrations. First I did research in terms of learning if Helen Bannerman's intent in writing the book had been racist. I satisfied myself that her intent was not racist and I wondered if there was a folk tale that was an antecedent . So I did a lot of research looking for a folk tale that was an antecedent thinking I'd base my story on the folk tale if it existed. Then I thought, "How do I do this book?" Her writing style is impeccable and there was no way that I could duplicate or improve on its simplicity. So I thought, "Let me go the opposite way, use more words and flesh it out." The other thing I spent time thinking about was the names. What children respond to in the names was the sound of Sambo, Mumbo and Jumbo. I wanted them to find a way to experience the same sense of play with the names, but not to use those particular names. I woke up one morning and was lying in bed mulling the story over and saying the syllable "Sam" over and over. Suddenly out of my mouth came Sam- sam-samara. I stayed there a little bit longer and I thought "Let's name everybody Sam!"

Q:  Why did you choose to name every character Sam?

A:  Because it was so silly that there would be a country with everyone having the same name that children would love it! It was not just the repetition, but setting the tone of complete absurdity of a land where it doesn't matter who says what.

Q:  How about the amazing images when you compare compare emotions and colors?

A:  I started those in John Henry and it's something I've continued doing. I guess it comes partly from the fact that I'm very poor at creating the usual kind of similes and metaphors, but human emotions are something I do know even I don't know where that skill came from. They're not easy! I sit at my computer and stare out at the trees for a long time searching to find an emotion that fits the concrete thing I'm describing.

Q:  Why did you decide to use so many different voices in Sam?

A:  I always try to fit voice to character. My background and training is as a musician. I started playing the piano when I was five years old, studied music until I was 21, and had a career as a folk singer. So I'm very conscious of the musicality of speech. I want the reader to feel as if they are being spoken to, rather than reading.

Q:  You always seem to take risks.

A:  I do.

Q:  Have you always?

A:  I have. I like taking spiritual and psychological risks, I like to live on the edge psychologically. In terms of my own work, I don't have any regrets of risks I've taken or any sense of failure about anything I've done. Sometimes it's scary thinking about how people are going to respond to something I've written. That was especially true with Sam and the Tigers. I know that there are many blacks especially who hate Little Black Sambo and the very idea that Jerry and I have done a new version might upset them, even make them angry. But I am convinced that if they look at Sam and the Tigers they will forget about Helen Bannerman's Little Black Sambo. The illustrations alone make the book irresistible.

©Susie Wilde 1998